The Division that launched in March 2016 is a far cry from the Division that exists today. Developer Massive Entertainment created a technically-adept squad-based cover shooter that never addressed the most major component of a live, persistent game: How do you keep people playing once they’ve seen everything there is to see?

Ubisoft and Massive had DLC plans, but it was clear that add-ons weren’t the answer. DLC would be nothing more than bandages covering a glaring flaw. Destructoid talked with Division 2‘s creative director Julian Gerighty, and he wasted no time pinpointing the most critical and formative crossroads for the series. “Update 1.4,” Gerighty says. “That was an incredibly important moment for us.”

Update 1.4, in Gerighty’s words, is when “we stopped all production of the DLCs and focused on fixing and tying up our technical debt and proposing a real structure for the endgame, like tiers and the gear score.” That’s the most crucial lesson Massive learned about making a live game. “Agility of production to be able to change and pivot very fast when we have issues or requests. I think that’s the most important aspect and the biggest thing we learned.”

The Division 2 has a hefty and challenging endgame screenshot

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The Division 2 has a hefty and challenging endgame